welcome to the deliberate way I’m Dan sewald your host and I’m joined today by my good friend and thought leader in the
space of mental health and the impact of social media Lauren muriello now a few
words about Lauren Lauren is a licensed psychotherapist and the founder of well-being therapy center right here in
the great state of New Jersey I got to add and Lauren specializes in children in teen issues including parenting and
family Dynamics modern Trends and teen mental health and a topic we’re going to go really deep on the impact of tech and
social media on the developing mind now over the past several years Lauren’s
been on a crusade speaking widely to many school districts and organizations to generate Awareness on the importance
of thoughtfully managing technology and social media use I think you’re going to find this every bit as fascinating as I
have in some of the conversations we’ve already uh started on so Lauren it’s
great to have you here it’s great to be here Dan well let me start here in our
last episode of the deliberate way we were exploring mental health and the impact on law students and I shared that
last year the CDC released data that showed 42% of high school students in
2021 they said that they were so sad or hopeless for at least two consecutive weeks in the previous year that they
actually stopped engaging in usual activities and while I know those numbers are very high what was more
disconcerting for me is it’s up more than 25% from the previous decade so I
wanted to ask you are we in the middle of a mental health pandemic and should
we be concerned what do you think we should be we should be very concerned we should be very concerned um you know
like you cited some data the CDC released another report recently and they upped it 57% of teen girls are
reporting that sadness or hopelessness 30% of teen girls have
contemplated hurting themselves suicidal thoughts right so it’s it’s really serious and we’ve seen this dramatic
change in the past decade in the past generation do you see a big difference from when you first started practicing I
know you’ve been uh you’re you’re a very young person but be that as admit you’ve been in practice for a little while do
you see a over 20 years I mean a couple of decades is is multiple Generations
arguably um what changes have you seen since you first started practicing working with with young people teens um
in the space yeah I mean obviously you know since I’ve been practicing there there it’s you know anxiety and depression have been prevalent um but
they’ve gotten more prevalent uh particular with younger and younger teens and kids so it’s really those
tweens and um and younger children that are now presenting ing more and more
with anxiety and even depression yeah yeah and uh I I got to
say that you know I’m I know that you’ve seen this as well I thought it was pretty startling uh last year the
Surgeon General issued a a state of emergency for a Child and Adolescent mental health which I naive me I thought
state of emergency isn’t that for hurricanes and floods and things like that but the Surgeon General got
involved and said to quote him while social media may offer some benefits
there are ample indicators that social media can pose a risk or harm uh to the mental health and well-being of children
and Adolescence what do you what did you make of the Surgeon General issuing an
advisory it seemed well maybe I’m wrong did it seem too extreme for the Surgeon
General to get involved for for me and for you know people um in in my uh role
who are really you know watching these Trends and and um looking at the impact
it was like thank goodness already you know we I I had been waiting for something like that so that you know
when I talk to parents in schools and I can now say look last May the Surgeon General put out an advisory you know
we’re not making this stuff up and I think there’s growing evidence from the leading researchers um that really
prompted the Surgeon General to put out that advisory um and look if we look at our own kids and our own habits we know
how powerful technology is and we know um that it is changing the way our brains work it’s changing our behaviors
um and for our children and teens they’re the most vulnerable you know their brains are still developing and so
we’re exposing them to Technologies um on an ongoing basis that are def are
definitely having an impact on them um and you know the other trend is is the the uh kids are getting um access to
technology younger and younger and younger and it’s not just screens in general we know that it’s social media
in particular that really starts to Prey Upon A lot of the natural desires that
um children and Adolescence have you know so for example we all know and we remember when you’re a pre-teen and a
teen you start really caring about what your peers think um and that has a function in terms of our psychological
development we’re starting to look outside the family unit to see where we fit in you know who do we like who do we
want to be what are our own values how do we identify by um and this is um a healthy function of our psychological
development so that by the time we are ready to leave the home we have a sense of who we are and who we want to be around um but that desire for um an
adolescent to to look outside and look at their peers and ask for feedback um
when you put them on social media now you’re giving them doses of social feedback hundreds or thousands of times
per day that’s not what the brain was really evolved to to to take on right um
and so that’s in part while we’re why we’re seeing this really um stressful
result um and the increase in that feeling of anxiety and depression you
know we can talk more about why do we think that exactly happening yeah um we’ll we’ll dive deeper into that I’m
gonna maybe for argument sake I’m just gonna bring up I’m a kid of the 70s and
and early 80s like I came of age in that generation and um you know I remember
that back then my parents used to say stop watching TV you’re going to get stupid and I was like well too late dad
but nevertheless like you know people used to call it the boob tube you know and but the belief was and there was a
lot of researchers at the time that said The more TV that you consume the more people are going to get dumbed down and
despite all the episodes of Tom and Jerry and Three’s Company that I took in somehow I made it to the other side and
have some semblance of intelligence how did we survive then and is this just
an overreaction then of this technology it’s new and when things are new people can be scared um is this an overreaction
what what do you think yeah I think it’s a great question I think there are some major differences first of all you clearly had um enough of what you needed
in your childhood and Adolescent to be a healthy functioning adult you know so
you you had a balance of Tom and Jerry and whatever activities you were engaged
in you know and um and the way your parents influenced you and and instilled values in you you know um but think
about some of the main differences you know the content right now is never ending you could consume content
non-stop right we used to watch a show we liked a show it would come on at 8 it would be over at 8:30 that was it um so
think about scrolling on on any of the social media platforms or YouTube um or Netflix I mean any of the platforms that
we’re using to consume content had have an endless supply of it right so we know that’s an issue too and therefore um
it’s really up to parents to help create clear guidelines so that there is a a a
time limit to the amount of content you know that we’re consuming um and so
because the platforms are designed now in such a way that they’re so engaging and by the way let’s not forget they’re
designed to be in as engaging as possible they’re designed by you know
Tech experts who are using acent it is no accident yeah it’s no accident
they’re using this persuasive behavior science and they’re inserting that into the software and the way that the
programs work um to engage the user to keep us coming back you know there’s great books about it read research about
that you know Al all sorts of reasons intermittent rewards and making it social and Cliffhangers and cre creating
goals right a Snapchat streak is a goal for the human mind right so for example
um and so because it’s engage it’s designed to be so engaging it is and kids and teens are spending hours and
hours and hours consuming um content and therefore it what are they not doing
right so so we you know maybe the content itself is not so harmful but the
amount of time they’re spending on it it’s going outside it’s almost like going to a buffet and there’s just an
endless amount of food you can eat yourself into Oblivion and um you know it’s funny because my son said to me 13
years old and a while back he was like you know kind of thumbing through Netflix and he said dad there’s not
enough time in my life to watch all these shows it’s so sad and I said to him what’s sad about that he said well
there’s so much out there like I feel like there’s there’s so much for me to do in terms of consuming movies and
shows and that really worried me because of exactly that glut that you’re talking about there’s an infinite amount of
content and people almost feel they’re obligated to try to consume it all versus doing all those other things I
don’t know if you hear that type of those comments or referendums from I love hearing that comment you know from
your son he’s so perceptive and it’s also it shows us that he’s drawn into the world um of of content consumption
where you know we’ve all experienced the dopamine reward Loop right it feels good it feels good to get likes it feels good
to get notifications it feels good to watch the next episode um and so you know his brain is like oh I got I got to
keep going gotta keep going but if we can teach our kids that that same concept oh wow there’s so much I want to
do but outside the home off a screen um because that’s what this generation is
really lacking in it’s it’s adventures and experiences off the screen we used
to ride our bikes with our friends sit on the handlebars do risky fun things you know walk around the neighborhood um
you know looking at the kids who lives there you know and going on adventure they’re not doing that right now so the
play based childhood that we had and all the generations before us had is being
replaced by a screen based childhood um and that’s part of the problem that we’re seeing now I I know you’re not a
neuroscientists by trade but you brought up about kind of reward systems and dopamine releases and some people talked
about like getting that dopamine squirt and we people may not even be conscious of this but you know when you send a
text and you’re waiting for that text to come in it does give you a little bit of a reward it gives you a little bit of a
boost um social media has been as you pointed out designed for this type of
addictive behavior um does it take you down or there’s a lot that’s been made
up of this idea of going down rabbit holes driven by the algorithms of giving you more and more of what the algorithm
thinks you’ll want but that could be negative like it could be if you’re in a in a down mood you’re sad it might give
you more sad video which is not good uh talk to me about how how this plays in
the way people engage with social and what are some of the potential issues with that that you’ve pointed out yeah I
mean this is a really important point so um the algorithm the computer program um
that is being used by the social media platforms you see like Tik Tok right they became a master of it and everyone started copying it um and they’re all
using it now Instagram you know YouTube um the algorithm is designed to keep the user on as long as possible that’s the
business model right the longer the users engaged the more advertising they can sell or sponsorships you know um and
so the algorithm is really good at knowing what makes someone watch and
stay on longer so let me give you the this concerning example of the teen girl
right so she wants to watch h a makeup tutorial so she watches a makeup tutorial and she watches the whole thing
and the algorithm you know knows okay makeup tutorials work let me give her more so there’s lots of makeup tutorials
in her feed you know hi Shadow blush um but related to makeup video is other
Beauty content so the algorithm serves up another very popular video about um how to change your draw jawline how to
make your jawline look different she watches the whole thing oh well did you know that people actually get surgery to change the facial construction of their
face and so she didn’t know that now she’s learning about that and watching it now she’s getting fed diet content uh
skinnier belly thinner thighs um you know you don’t need to eat as much as you really think you do and this is
called eating disorder content and so what we’re seeing are teen girls that
start with a more innocent interest in Beauty content and they get taken down that rabbit hole of eating disorder
content and once they’re exposed to that if they engage in any kind of eating
disorder Behavior what the research shows is that staying on the social media platforms will actually make it
worse so now they’re sucked into this fall you know just quickly for the teen boy might be I’m interested in air
fighter jets and now I’m getting fed information about ammunition and guns and school shootings and violence and on
and on and on and so I always say to parents the algorithm does not care about your kids the algorithm cares
about how long they’re watching something I I so I’ll ask you this question when you think about they just
had uh you know Mark Zuckerberg from Facebook Instagram um you know testify
in front of Congress and he um you know smartly apologized to amilies that have lost children that they perceive
connected with going down some of these rabbit holes or indirect results of those at least will they change things I
I know you’re not a prognosticator of of digital strategy and social institutions but will they change things for the
better will they have controls do you think in the future that may protect from going down those deep deep dark
rabbit holes what do you think I mean I think the reality is they’ll change it
either if they have do in other words if if our lawmakers you know make it mandatory um or if enough parents and
consumers um are educated and say enough you know we’re not going to use these
products um if you don’t protect our most vulnerable users um you know I I
have to hope that um as more and more people are educated about it we will insist you know and protect our kids are
people insisting though I I’ll this is just you know one person opinion but I’m interested to hear yours um I hear a lot
of people grousing about it I hear a lot of people you know anecdotally saying ah
my kids are on the screen for so long but they don’t do anything about it and if I’m honest I don’t think I’ve done
enough and I and sometimes feel at a loss of you know what do I do so will
they ever insist like I don’t know if people feel that they have the ability to make a difference on this issue yeah
and that’s what’s so important and that’s that’s what’s been you know one of my missions is to talk to as many parents as possible and let them know
you absolutely have control and we have to wake up we need to take control we need to make the conversation about
screens Tech and social media as important as a conversation about substances you know alcohol drugs sex
any risky behaviors so I tell parents when you give your kids a smartphone you need to be also having this conversation
about setting limits about what’s appropriate on social media you know and how how do you handle yourself let let
me take a step back for a moment you kind of alluded to this but I’ll ask you more directly is General screen time for
example like watching a movie on your phone the same or essentially the same
thing as um you know using Tick Tock or Instagram they’re you’re both getting
sucked in um what you’ve alluded to is that there are these digital rabbit holes that they’re built for but would
you say that they’re different would you limit them differently what what’s your your view on that that’s a great that’s a great great question in general longer
form content is better you know rather rather kids and teens be watching movies you know that have plot lines and have a
start and an end um and also the bigger the screen the better you know this is
particularly important for younger kids don’t give them phones don’t give them iPads um let them sit in front of the
television and watch something you know you’re then aware of what they’re you know consuming and you can have a
dialogue about it and be a part of the conversation right yeah so you know in general that my feeling the um the short
form content on YouTube shorts on Tik Tok on Instagram you know that’s the part that is really kind of mind-numbing
NeverEnding um you know takes users down that content Rabbit Hole so putting limits on it is the key right we’re not
going to stop using technology in social media and actually I love technology I really think it’s incredible I get
excited about it um you know my 15-year-old really loves understanding the ins and outs of how it works and he
talks to me about all the time time and I love it um but the key is balance and
limit you know so um you know what the research is showing and the experts are telling us is about two hours a day for
kids and teens outside of schoolwork you know about two hours a day because in the research the teens that are using it
longer than two hours are the ones that are struggling the most in reporting the highest rates of anxiety and depression
because they’re not doing all those things that make you feel really good hanging out in person with friends going
on adventures taking healthy risks you know being out of the world out in the world interacting with people um and so
if we can just have that General guideline in all of our homes um we can now use parent controls and settings you
know on the devices to make it easier for us to do that I I this is a very and
a total random question but you you sparked my thought on this is is it um
would you consider to be a a a real you know authentic interaction with two kids
on FaceTime let’s say and I know it’s not the same as being in person but um
you know I see you know my kids doing homework with each other on FaceTime or girlfriends and boyfriends talking on
FaceTime and I don’t do that very much um you know we’re obviously using a tool
like that for for other purposes like Zoom we use for meetings and teams and the like but they very casually interact
using FaceTime and other kind of mediums like that to be able to have that digital face Toof face that slowly
becoming a norm not just a norm but like is that you know somewhat equivalent to having a normal face-to-face engagement
well you know I think it’s it’s harmless I don’t have a problem with it um I think I’d rather them be on FaceTime
looking at each other’s facial expression hearing each other’s tone of voice than just texting so I’ll take
that over the any day you know um now it shouldn’t take the place of face to-face interactions so at all right so we want
to make sure they’re getting together in person but I remember being on the phone talking to friends doing homework you know so now they can actually like see
each other um so I think that’s actually great as long as they’re also seeing each other in the real world you know
that’s that’s the key all right I’ll I’ll take that that’s so I will not ban that in the house you can FaceTime doing
homework but meet people in person from time to time exactly let let’s go across the pond for a minute to uh to the
United Kingdom so recently um last year late last year they imposed a ban on
mobile phones for the entire School day um there was some government guidance around this is this an extreme measure
to like you know in a very paternalist way take the phones literally out of their hand um and not give it back to
them until the end of the day and should we be following that in the US what what do you say about that yeah I think we
should be following it in the US absolutely um you know they’re they’re designed to be distraction devices you
know they they really are how could we give them to kids and expect them to stay focused on academics
and on their social interactions so my biggest concern is that they’re lacking
the social skill development and the emotional skill development because the phones are so distracting most school
districts elementary school and middle school they’re pretty clear no phones whatsoever um if kids happen to own a
phone in middle school they need to be locked away in a backpack great a lot of high schools are letting the students
have their phones um you know maybe teachers have a little basket they go in but they have them throughout the day
and my biggest concern I was talking to a school counselor a few weeks ago I was asking her you know tell me what it’s
like in between classes in the hallways she says they don’t make eye contact they’re looking down at their phones as
they’re walking you know um I asked my 15-year-old you know we he was talking about you know chatting with someone I
was like well what about like after class you know right when before the Bell Rings don’t you guys chat he’s like
no everyone’s on their phones you know when I think back is that a norm is that a norm now I even that I’m not in high
school anymore it’s the norm if they have their phones if they have them they can’t not look at them we all know what
that feels like and especially for them so I am a big proponent in phone free
schools in phone- free high schools um and there are some you know great solutions that schools can Implement now
I think it’s really critical actually for for addressing this mental health epidemic that we’re talking about
I’m gonna I’m gonna play the contrarian role another time so forgive me um but
I’m gonna go back to when I was in first grade and I am still traumatized by the fact my parents wouldn’t let me watch TV
much if at all and uh I came into class one day and every kid was lined up
outside you remember you used to line up before class and everybody sat in the hall and they were all talking about
this TV special that had been on I don’t know what it was because I didn’t see it and I remember feeling embarrassed when
I was asked like didn’t you see it and I had no idea about it I felt like an outsider because I didn’t know and I
have a feeling that a lot of other parents fear their kids feeling that way of being socially isolated or feeling
disconnected so they just say take your phone I’m not going to restrict you what
do you do in that circumstances like where you don’t want your kid to feel like they’re a pariah and they’re not up
to date with all the technology and the social norms that people are living by sure it’s a really great point and it’s
a challenge it is definitely a challenge because if your kid’s entire friend group is on Instagram and your child’s
not they are left out they are absolutely left out so right now while we’re waiting for the trends to change
you know my answer is you let them use it but you limit it so they can go on for 20 or 30 minutes a day so they can
connect with what their friends are doing and being being a part of it but then you have the conversation with other parents like look I really want
our kids to be getting together in person I I’d rather them be using private texting than being exposed to
that rabbit hole of social media which we know is really harmful so we have to try to be the trend setters and start
new trends um and it’s challenging and I think the younger kids right now um are
our hope so you know I think parents of kids who don’t yet have social media are our hope for the Next Generation that
they can you know change the trends and and start do it differently now I I know you focus on primarily you know Young
adults teens but let’s talk about adults for a moment so um my wife as as you
know is a speech pathologist she works in the Pediatric space and one of the
sort of things that’s been a byproduct of running that practice is she has a waiting room and she sees the
interactions of parents and young children in some cases kids who were just toddling and she’ll often see in
between sessions or between you know arriving and waiting for their session could just be five minutes that the
child will come over with a block a book a toy and they’ll bring it to the parent and the parent is there looking at their
phone and brushing them off and ignoring them and one of the things that cross my
mind as I hear these Reflections from My Wife and Her therapist is how can we
expect our children to be any better what can we do when our adult role models are every bit as bad of what
we’re describing maybe they’re even worse because they use the argument it’s work it’s important it’s an adult thing
um how do you cope with that when you have Role Models every day doing the things we don’t want their kids to do
and we want them to evangelize to do as I say not as I do uh deal with that when
dealing with children you know but having this adult problem right right yeah well you know I think when we’re
the adults in the situation that are aware of what what’s going on aware of the pattern you know we have to do our
best to um you know Enlighten others we have to wake them up you know so so maybe Your Wife puts a sign up in her
waiting room that says reminder you know phone free zone focus on your child
right um because like you’re ex like you’re describing most adults are also
addicted it is it’s become like a self- soothing um and and it’s always with you
so we have to become more aware and create limits ourselves so that we can model it for our kids absolutely yeah
and it’s funny she does have a sign in there but it goes you know wolf ignored I I think you’re spot on it is it’s it
is self soothing it’s like a friend and it’s sad if that becomes your best friend it replaces everything else um
let me turn for for another moment we’ve talked about teens we’ve talked a little bit about adults although I want to talk
about adults more um talking about like college age kids like just on the cusp of being a full adult I know there was
some research that that you pointed me to about cell phone usage and it’s actually even uh it could be considered
out of date it might be even more relevant stuff today but there is an association of lower grades greater
self-reported anxiety and depression for students who are regularly you know interacting with their phones they even
said that they have a lower satisfaction um with life and that’s worrisome um
what do you see on that that older range is it any different from the from the
young adults young teens that you deal with yeah well I mean first of all the the cohort that’s in college right now are
the ones that really got on you know when they were in middle school or high school for the first time and we really
you know they were the the experiment the real experiment um and I know universities report you know incredible
highry about that experiment yeah sorry guys we didn’t realize that but they were natural experiment didn’t realize
that you know and so they’re really suffering with with uh not having coping skills and not feeling comfortable
taking those Adventures out in the world like I was describing you know um less likely to get driver’s license
to go on dates you know and we’re seeing that still in in all of jenzi um and so
um you know I I think what we know is that as as humans we are social beings
we have a desire to connect and so the social media platforms um they they give
us a false sense of connection we do we want to we’re interested I like getting the message from a friend or seeing what
people think but it doesn’t actually give us deeply satisfying uh relationships it doesn’t help us to bond
in the way that we do need to as humans in order to feel satisfied um you know
it feels like a lot of surface level so you might have thousands of followers that kind of you know get you just an
inch deep um but you need that group of people that get you you know a mile deep
and that’s what’s not not happening as much uh in that social media lifestyle
now if I were listing this I might feel like oh my God is this sky falling and I
I want to dwell on some good things for a moment because you really spend a lot of time trying to turn the corner of
building awareness and getting that right balance to use that word about balance of there’s there needs to be
healthy caution but we also need to know that there are a lot of things that you can do that will get it right um when
you think about who is getting it right from either an individual or an organizational institutional level who’s
worth copying who’s doing some things that people should know about that they may not know about that are doing it
right right now yeah I mean I think from an individual standpoint you know if you know someone that’s setting limits on
screens in their home um they’re doing it right you know if you know someone that’s delaying giving a kid a
smartphone you know they get it they’re they’re doing it right um if you know someone who’s prioritizing playing
family games going on walks you know getting out of the house um you know they’re doing it right in terms of
organization there’s a great organization called wait until 8th created by some moms um and the you know
their mission is to get parents to not give smartphones until at least 8th grade around that 13year old Mark um and
delay entry into social media you know even longer um and on their wa website uh wait till a.org they have some great
um Family conversation guides um you know they have some nice materials to
help families I also um Love the log off movement which was created by
teenagers um and on their website they have a whole bunch of ideas for different Hobbies like other thing what
what should I do if I’m not on a screen you know and they and they have hundreds of different thing ideas I need that one I gotta I need that for my kids they’re
always asking well what should I do now I’m like I don’t know read a book and that doesn’t go over well yeah you know
and I just printed a list of things um especially for my my 10-year-old to do independent activities um there’s I’ll
so I’ll mention this other organization let grow let grow.org and it’s all about
letting your kids be more independent getting out in the world and they have great resources too um one other
organization I’ll mention from more of a policy um level is called the center for Humane
technology um and they’ve been really doing wonderful work um I got exposed to
them probably 10 or so years ago um and I’ve been following them you know ever since uh they’re doing great work in the
space um the founders have been in front of Congress before you know really talking about uh the research and the
implications um so following them you know is fabulous and they also have some great tools on their site about how to
take control you know little things like turning off notifications on all apps except your you know your text message
and your phone call right there’s no reason you need a notification for social media or email when you decide to
go check you decide to go check you know so so little thing little tips like that can really have a positive impact on the
way we control technology so that we’re not sitting there like the that Mom in the waiting room you described who’s not
paying attention to her four-year-old child because she’s W looking at her phone now this is not a Shameless plug
for you but I got to ask do you put or share any of these types of tips and social whether it’s like Instagram or
LinkedIn which we shouldn’t be looking at because we should be outside living our lives but in case I am looking at
Instagram or LinkedIn or something else do you share these at all or or or do you know I do share these types of tips
and um you know I’ll put some more on our YouTube channel after on my YouTube channel after we’re done with this um
and yeah you know I I just limit the amount you know that I that I use the the platforms and I try to really use it
for information sharing um you know there are ways to use the platforms they’re fabulous like I tell teenagers
use Instagram as uh like a portfolio of your successes whether you’re an artist or you’re in theater or you’re an
athlete you know so when colleges look to see you know or or Prospect perspective uh employers look to see who
you are yeah then they can then they can see you know who you are from your from your successes right so we can use the Platforms in different ways that’s a
that’s a great point it is a portfolio of sorts um I’m gonna ask you one more
question and then we’re going to Pivot a little bit so last question since I do
love this idea of the deliberate way that that smart clever people do things
differently and more deliberately than others um what are some of the deliberate practices that you you
already kind of alluded to some of them but what are some of the deliberate practices that you would Rec recommend
for me as a parent and what might be some deliberate practices just as an adult who may be consumed by my
technology that I should be using what would recomend yeah I think as a parent
you know the main ones would be uh prioritizing having discussions with your kids about why you care about you
know screen use and limiting it and why you’re concerned that’s social media could harm their mental health and make
them feel bad um and that that you know you’re there to protect them and guide them and you know that you’re going to
be talking to them about this ongoing that this is a big part of life and then the key next step is to use the uh
parent controls that allow us to set limits so we can set limits on our kids
screens and on their phones and we can set limits to the amount of time uh they use specific apps and we can set limits
to when the phone just those off um and we need to be using those because our kids are not going to put it down it’s
it’s addicting it’s designed to draw them in we can use the same tools for ourselves and when you do use it for
yourself you’re more likely to use it for your kid because you’re going to be familiar with it so I encourage parents
set your own down time your phone should go off at what what is it 9:30 10 10:30 um and limit yourself do you get sucked
into Instagram do you get sucked into LinkedIn whatever it is limit it to 30 minutes you know for kids and teens I
mentioned we want that two hour you know about that twoh hour limit so for example on my 15-year-old’s phone you
know I let him decide which apps you want you know to use frequently but
we’re gonna add them up to that two hours so it’s you know 30 minutes on YouTube or 20 minutes on Snapchat and um
and you know 30 minutes on Instagram and it all adds up to the two hours and do you uh do you find that
that from a Prof profal standpoint are there ever any headwinds or challenges of people complaining Lauren I I I
needed to talk to you but you know I couldn’t reach you you you have the phone off at 9:30 um or or let’s say you
work for a large company and you’re a position where the expectation is always on how do people contend with that any
advice on on better managing those expectations yeah I mean I would really
challenge the culture of a company or an organization that has always on expectation I mean we know that we need
downtime to rest um you know we need to recharge we need to have time for our
own physical and mental well-being and then we will perform better on the job if we have that healthier balance so if
people really feel like they can’t turn off at 9:30 because there’s an expectation in the workplace then I’m
concerned about the workplace culture you know and that being a healthy place to work I think you know yeah we have to
be able to set those healthy boundaries for ourselves um you know that may be that may be an
interview question for people out there looking for a new role or for uh you know promotion of finding out from your
manager or from your team of is there an expectation that I’m always reachable all the time if there is you may want to
rethink is this the right place culturally for me and if you’re okay with that you want to live your life like that I suppose that’s your
individual choice and your prerogative I personally don’t want to live my life like that and I know you don’t so and I
expect most people don’t but it’s a it’s a great piece of advice all right Lauren this has been
amazing but you’re not done yet great I have a a short game that I like to call
myth or reality and I like to do with all of my guests because what what I’ve been doing is collecting different
statements things that people believe to be either a myth or a reality sometimes
they’re they’re in between and you can you can ride the fence on that if you don’t want to commit one way or the
other but in each case I want you to make a call and I want you to explain or elaborate a little bit about why you
feel it’s a myth or re a reality or somewhere in between for that matter so are you ready to play some myth or
reality ready all right here we go first statement social media applications are
designed for addiction is that a myth or reality reality that was okay that was a
softball but um reiterate for me why do you think it’s an addiction yeah I mean you know as we
mentioned the human mind is wired uh to desire social connection um social media
gives us the opportunity for an endless amount of social connection the problem is it’s not the the right type of social
connection that truly makes people happy next young people don’t care about
privacy is that a myth or is that a reality uh you know I would say myth probably
depends on the age yeah tell me more yeah I mean I think as they get older you know more aware of of what that what
the implications are of privacy you know I think older teens and young adults certainly you know care more about it
yeah and I’ll just add one thing on the Privacy piece is that there’s lots of stories of kids posting uh inappropriate
licentious things that they would never have posted or shared verbally or visually in the past so there’s a sense
that people don’t care about privacy but it sounds like age dependent and maybe not not as a a general uh reality yeah I
mean it also comes down to impulse control so we know that you know young kids and Adolescence don’t have impulse
control their prefrontal cortex is not fully developed yet they’re not supposed to they’re much more likely to make an
impulsive decision in that moment and once you click post it’s it’s there it’s
there and it ain’t going anywhere um okay next teens are losing the art of
face-to-face communication is that a myth or is that a reality reality absolutely they’re not practicing enough
they’re they’re not doing enough of it even though they they’re still you know they’re they’re still face- to-face
communication they’re just not as as good as we were at at this age I think so I think they’re not as good again
it’s anecdotal from what I’m seeing you know in my practice and and talking to you know hundreds of parents and my
presentations yeah all right watching a movie on your phone is essentially the
same thing as watching a movie in your family room together myth of reality
that’s a my yeah go on go on with that tell me I know the bigger screen the better because you kind of everyone
around you knows what’s going on but yeah watching together as a family is a bonding experience you know hopefully you’re laughing together you’re talking
together you’re pausing to go to the bathroom um you know it’s it’s it’s a group activity so it’s there’s bonding
there yeah what about when your kidss keep talking to you incessantly throughout the movie and you’re tearing
your hair out saying please stop telling me what you think about every step that doesn’t
happen opportunity for you to learn you know your own emotional regulation um
also a really important opportunity for you to teach your child what’s socially appropriate you know so all these all
these times you know these situations where we’re interacting with our kids or they’re interacting with friends that’s
how they develop you know the types of skills they need in order to have healthy adult conversations and to be
successful in the workplace and in life all right next parents should monitor
their teens accounts as a friend until you build trust myth or reality myth
parents should tell their kids right away I will Monitor and look at your account you know regularly ongoing not
every second I’m not going to read every single thing but I’m gonna sometimes poke around to see what’s going on there
I’m you know my job is protect you and I trust you but I don’t trust everyone else in the world and i’ I’ve heard
stories of kids getting uh you know sucked into bad situations um really quickly and I don’t want that to happen
to you so you know and Dan the same is true when parents talk to kids about their expectations around drug use and
alcohol use um kids are more likely to abstain when they hear their parents
voice in their mind or when they know their parents going to check on them so the same is true with social media I’m not going to I’m less likely to post
something inappropriate when I know that my mom looks you know every few days or every couple of weeks MH that’s that’s a
great piece of advice I don’t think I follow it enough so I’m already I’m I’m mentally writing down the notes of the
things that I need to do better so and a great way to do that is you say to your kid show me something funny from today
you know show me something that happened today so it’s not always like show me what you’re doing are you being safe you know um let me because most of the time
hopefully it’s going to be fun and funny like what made you laugh what’s going on sometimes I see my son laughing on his
phone I’m like so what was that about you know sometimes he doesn’t want to tell me but sometimes he’ll tell me and then I get a sense of what you know the
culture is you know for amongst his friends and what they’re doing I’m gonna
throw one out that I’m sure that comes out a lot um about bullying is there
more bullying because of the availability of technology today or is it relatively the same as it was 20
years ago um you know I can’t answer it I can’t answer it from a statistical standpoint but I can say with certainty
is that cyber bullying is a huge issue um you know the cyber bullying um it’s
much easier to be mean um when you can’t see someone’s facial expression it’s
it’s you know much easier to be mean over text um you know the the circuits
in our brain that get triggered when I see someone’s facial expression are directly related to my emotions and my
caring my empathy um when you’re writing text and it’s very you know language
only it’s connected to a different part of the brain not the one um that triggers empathy or concern so it’s much
easier you know to just to be to be mean um and I ask kids at my when I do a presentation for students I ask them why
is it easier to be mean you know over social media and they know right away you know you know you don’t see the person’s face it’s you can hide behind
the screen if if you’re anonymous well then it’s really easy you can use these Anonymous platforms which by the way you
know as a parents don’t ever let your kids on any Anonymous platform that’s that’s a good tip um I I will
just add to that point about bullying that literally the maybe it was a day ago my son saw a friend um on a
something called a photo dump I had no idea what that was it’s when people throw a whole bunch of pictures or
photos together but the intention is to embarrass people or put pictures which are are not flattering and for people to
laugh at them and I was so sad when I heard that and my my son saw a friend or
a friendly acquaintance and he told the person you should know this person put that out there and I just was so it’s
devastating to see that and but I was also heartened to see that my son saw the Injustice of it and did something
about it so I think all the things about bowling still apply um and adults do it
too not just kids because you see adults doing stuff like this as well um okay
I’ll move off my bully pulpit on bullying um so the the penel ultimate
one I have for you is myth of reality social media is a major inhibitor to
teens developing friendships and their social lives reality reality reality
yeah you know the kids that have good friendships already established don’t struggle as much as the ones who are
struggling to make friends you know kids trying to make friends um in a a world
where you know everyone’s on their phone or on their screen it’s really hard for them to break through you know and I’ve
talked to lots of parents and kids about that challenge I I have one last one for you
it’s one that does hit at home for me and for others I’m sure it does as well is it okay to keep your cell phone on or
by your bedside at nighttime is that and that’s maybe not a myth or reality question it is a true or not true uh
your thoughts on that sure well as a parent you know for kids absolutely not
you should never allow your kid to have their phone in their room at night it should be charging somewhere outside of
the bedroom it it ensures that they’re not going to be distracted by it that they’re not going to wake up in the middle of the night and look at
something upsetting or have a friend reach out to them um and we know that it impedes good sleep hygiene when the
phone is there um kids need sleep most teenagers are already sleep deprived right so we want to make sure that it’s
out of the room same goes for adults right so we have to make you know the smart decisions for ourselves um have
having a phone in the bedroom at night interferes with you know your in-person
relationships if you’re with someone else in your bedroom um the blue light we know can interfere you know with uh
with healthy sleep um and you’re much more likely to um be triggered by
upsetting news uh work stress um you know so it really inhibits healthy sleep so I like
phones out of the bedroom at night um there are some really nice alarm clocks you can get now um my techie son you
know researched and found the one he liked you know it’s called the lofty smartphone has nice sounds and nice
lights and you can connect it to your Spotify account so you can play music you know you could do all sorts of fun things um phones out of the bedroom at
night is is a really um you know clear recommendation awesome great great tip on that one also um I wish I had more to
to ask you but I’ve run out of myths and reality questions and you’ve been amazing but before we wrap things up I
do need to ask you um closing thoughts suggestions for people who are listening
in and maybe they’re confronting issues just like the ones we’ve been talking about um what would you short of calling
you and and meeting with you or advising what would you recommend for people to do to to kind of think this through
further what what advice steps would you give to them yeah I mean I think the big takeaways are um you know don’t freak
out you know Tech is here to stay we just have to learn to control it and to
use it in a healthy balance so therefore set limits for yourself and for your
kids you know use uh the the screen time and digital well-being settings that are
on uh the iPhones and the Androids um you can easily look up how to how to set
those um and really the most important thing for you know raising happy healthy
kids is to make sure that they feel love and seen so when in doubt hug your kid
and say I love you and we’ll get through this together I love the idea of a 7c
hug which has been shown to be the amount of time you need to hug someone to have that real endorphin release so a
hug does cure all ills maybe not all but but some of them for sure yeah yeah
Lauren I cannot thank you enough for sharing your wisdom your experience um
some great practices which I know I’m going to start trying to employ and you mentioned that you have tips that are up
on your YouTube site that there’ll be more coming um we’ll also ask for other things that we can share here so folks
can be able tap into that but uh for me and uh the deliberate Innovation team a big thank you for all the deliberate
practices so thank you and thank you for the work you’re doing thanks Dan this has been great awesome all right until
the next time for the next deliberate way
