Ep. 7: From Survivor to CEO

0:01
another all right
0:07
well good morning good afternoon maybe even good evening great to have you all
0:13
here I have one of the greatest guests here today with us
0:18
um we’re going to be talking about deliberate advocacy from Survivor to CEO
0:23
and maima is my guest you’re going to meet her in just a moment for our seventh installment of the deliberate
0:30
way now I’m Dan seawalt you may remember me from previous episodes and I can
0:36
think of no better way to light up your Tuesday than to hear all about the
0:41
experiences of one of the real bright lights and luminaries in breast cancer
0:46
awareness advocacy and really kind of helping people rethink reimagine what it
0:52
means to be a Survivor and someone who is living with breast cancer so uh for
0:59
my first time friends who haven’t seen an episode before the deliberate way is
1:05
a way to explore the different ways that people who are experts in their craft approach their craft in a systematic or
1:13
deliberate way we look at people who are from musicians scientists Advocates
1:19
theorists marketers you name it and our goal is to try to understand the
1:24
deliberate ways that they do things so that we can borrow just a little bit of
1:30
technique and practice and apply it to our daily lives and we have a real deliberate innovator here today with us
1:38
um maima I’m going to give a quick background for those who don’t know you if you don’t know Mima shame on you
1:44
maybe you should know mamma but if you don’t let me tell you a little bit about her she’s a mother she’s a
1:50
philanthropist an author an advocate a cancer Warrior a magazine publisher life
1:56
coach entrepreneur empath badass yep I said it badass badass and a unicorn so
2:03
that’s a lot it’s a lot of categories I’ll tell you um memo you know as I you know your
2:09
story a little bit your story began in Liberia in West Africa where you were born and after surviving two Wars in
2:16
Liberia during a third coup d’etat you’ve fled to the U.S as a 15 year old your father put you on a plane alone to
2:24
avoid persecution and after working your way through college and raising a three-year-old
2:30
you were diagnosed with aggressive breast cancer you had no family history 32 years old I mean unbelievable 32 so
Guest Background
2:38
unusual but while in treatment I understand you made a promise to
2:43
yourself that if you survived you’d create an organization to educate Empower and Advocate that supports young
2:50
women who are affected by breast cancer and as you all can see she’s here with
2:56
me today so you did pretty good so amazing awesome um and that’s not the least of it since
3:04
then you’ve become the founder of the Tiger Lily Foundation Tiger Lily educates Advocates and powers and
3:10
supports young women before during and after breast cancer
3:15
um you’re also the author of fearless Awakening to my life’s purpose through breast cancer and the publisher of Bliss
3:22
Magazine and you may have seen Nema on The Today Show maybe Good Morning
3:29
America depending on what station you’d like to tune into in the morning or MSNBC and many others
3:35
um maima it’s really great to have you here with me it’s a real honor and treat to be able to chat with you today
3:42
then you’re hired you’re hired and thank you for that
3:48
great introduction I really appreciate it as you were talking I was thinking about your the podcast name deliberately
Deliberate Intention and Life
3:54
and um you know it it it’s really important you know to highlight from me in my life
4:01
I’ve always been deliberate even if you don’t I didn’t know what I wanted to do or who I wanted to be I was deliberate
4:06
in my intention to be uh to live a life that would make a difference and inspire people and Empower people and that it
4:12
would leave a living Legacy that I would build it while I was living so you know people often think that you have to have
4:18
a plan and I did have a plan of who I would be and how my heart would emote in the world and then I plan to unfold it
4:24
and I made choices but um I love how your the name of the podcast dies to the way I live my life
4:30
deliberately and with attention yeah I I love it you are you are a deliberate innovator well I’m gonna go back for a
Surviving Civil War
4:37
moment and I mentioned Liberia and kind of maybe I’ll roll back to the beginning
4:43
and talk to you you know before being a breast cancer survivor it seems like your life was defined by survival
4:51
um tell me a little bit about your childhood if you wouldn’t mind in Liberia what was it like to to escape a
4:58
war or Wars for that yeah yeah I you know I remember the first war
5:05
my I was eight years old and my father remember getting up my mother and father
5:10
were talking and like hushed like it was down there stressed out you know and I was like what’s going on
5:16
my mother said your dad’s going to a meeting and my dad you know he was dressed in a suit and it
5:24
was he seemed really like again also like tense and I’m like what’s happening so open house to me my while we were
5:31
sleeping my brothers and I I had broken out and they had put an announcement out saying that people with certain stature
5:38
and had certain businesses should come to a meeting uh my dad had been watching talking to people and he knew excuse me
5:45
that their Rebels going toward the door murdering rape being killing cutting up
5:51
people like it was just horrific beheading all kinds of things so my dad knew if he didn’t go to this meeting it
5:57
would be they’d come for us I’m still knowingly knowing it was a trap he sacrificed himself literally for the
6:04
family and left and um didn’t come back for days my mom in my two siblings at a time and I went
6:10
to hiding and my mother after a few days told her friend if I don’t go get my husband he’s gonna
6:15
die like I know he’s going to be killed you know by the soldiers and she went and rescued my dad and um reflected the
6:22
states for the first time at eight years old and my dad after a few months of being in the states he says we have to
6:27
go back I said why do you want to go back he says people who are who couldn’t afford to get a plane ticket or less or
6:33
less fortunate don’t they’re still there they’re getting you know persecuted excuse me they’re getting
6:39
killed they have no money water no food no electricity like they need to have they don’t have any they don’t have
6:45
anything um so we went back and I was like this man is crazy but my
6:52
father was showing me at the time what sacrifice meant and what commitment to others men and we escaped back and forth
6:58
two two more times until the last time in um 89. wow I you know I I can’t help but
7:05
but to sort of kind of reflect on that that idea most people when they have an
7:10
opportunity to escape such a a dire situation they’re not coming back and I
7:16
it kind of highlights for me this point that being a Survivor isn’t just about surviving it’s about sacrificing Health
7:24
it’s about I didn’t mention that my mom went to rescue me father in the barracks and
7:29
he had sacrificed himself to go for us hoping they wouldn’t come find us and
7:34
she literally the entire country was fleeing towards like to get out she was asking to go
7:40
back into the barracks to go find my father so they taught me the importance of love and sacrifice and surviving from me
7:47
when I got diagnosed you know when your life splashing before you you look back at things that made you who you are
7:53
excuse me allergies and my father’s sacrificed um my mother’s as well telling me that
8:00
like others who don’t have what you have can have a worse outcome than you if you don’t go back and do something about it
8:06
and then them being very selfless about like their own lives putting us in
8:11
their love before you know anything else in the country and people who were less fortunate so that taught me the
8:17
importance of you know survivorship is not only about me it’s about who am I going to go back and pull out of the
8:22
fire that’s still in that space wow I I yeah it’s a it’s a remarkable story you
How Surviving Shapes Your Outlook
8:29
were howled again when when you when you fled the first war was eight was sorry I
8:36
don’t know well thanks so much first war was I was um eight years old second war was 12 and the last was 15.
8:44
wow so your whole kind of young adult kind of coming of age years was defined
8:49
by kind of coping with survival with war that’s not what most kids deal with in
8:55
the United States or most a developing world today it’s it’s got a kind of color or shape the way you view things
9:02
how does it or how has it do you think sort of impacted the way you see things even beyond all the other experiences of
9:10
curiosity well Dan you know like my peers in the US when I made friends here all thinking about you know fun and
9:17
playing and like they were not thinking about other people and thinking about themselves right and my parents had
9:22
taught me early on that life could be life is so fragile it could be you’re having a good time right now then
9:28
the next moment could be could be all gone so even things like you know arguments petty stuff like things that
9:34
didn’t matter you know just focus on what matters almost like family and love and commitment to others
9:39
it’s always also the importance of knowing that my life matters and that
9:46
um anybody who I’m touching however I’m being in the world have whatever I’m doing is going to impact their lives
9:51
because my father has sacrificed when he went back he was able to give people who were who were not able to leave you know
9:58
money to be able to you know pay for their food um pay for electric bills my mother was a nurse and she all people who were sick
10:04
in the hospital so like they went to care for other people and so that what I learned is not only about money it’s
10:11
about people knowing that you care about them that you’re going to be holding a space for them and you’re going to be holding them and so you know
10:18
um it really shaped me um The Compassion they show for other people and so like when I first got done
10:23
when I got diagnosed my first thought was like oh my God what’s happening but within a matter of months it was oh my
10:29
God who’s coming after I mean they could have a worse outcome if I don’t do something about that and in my space in
10:35
my own war with cancer War because the war was then in my body this cancer thing
10:40
um I could have chosen to lose Toronto Wards a place of like taking care of myself and getting better and forgetting
10:46
about cancer but then I think if you think about this problem that we have in our these systems who’s facing the
10:52
problem you can’t just say that what are they doing you have to ask what part do I play either by action or an action
10:58
in either if you’re acting you’re helping to fix or by in action you’re a part of the problem and so I thought I
11:04
want to fix these challenges but I also want to create a space for people people who are going through cancer to be able to breathe to be able to breathe to be
11:10
able to like just know that they’re safe and that they’re hurt and that they’re comforted and that was really lucky when I was diagnosed um
11:17
so my parents words and their actions really were embodied in me and it came back to me and and those things shaped
11:24
who I have been who I became you know and um there are times from now when they say like are you crazy you’re doing
11:30
all these different things and how do you and I’m like you’re behind your ass went back into the barracks you got
11:35
dressed in a suit and went into the like you literally both did those things like I’m doing the same thing but not an awards and that’s a physical with guns
11:42
but uh um an invisible you know cancer is not it can’t yeah so it’s different kind of War but it seems it’s doing I’m doing
11:48
what they did years later but in different countries so um those lessons really changed my life
11:54
and made me who I am today we we all fight different kinds of words and you’re right some are metaphorical some
12:01
are literal which I want to kind of wind the clock a little bit forward and uh
Diagnosed with Breast Cancer
12:07
from kind of your teen years you’re 32 years old you’re a young mom you’ve been
12:13
in the U.S for a few years or well I guess more than a few years at this point you’ve been here for a little while
12:20
um and you get sort of the the the diagnosis that that nobody wants to see
12:26
that you’ve been diagnosed with breast cancer tell me kind of at that moment what prompted you first of all to go to
12:32
the doctor what what because screening mammography at 32 unheard of
12:38
um how did you know how did it come about tell me about kind of what was running through your mind and how you
12:43
kind of cope with that well I’ll rewind a little bit my mom is a major factor in my life she’s a nurse
12:51
and she worked as they had the chief narcissist Chief nurse running Liberia’s
12:56
Nurse Association back home and she taught me my breast exams at 13 years old and people always ask me what made
13:03
her do that but in her mind she traveled all over the world with the U.N and saw people also just everywhere across the
13:09
country and across into the globe women getting breast cancer at different ages and they would find it when they were
13:15
older but she would wonder if they were maybe the cancer might began growing before they even found it so she said to
13:21
me when I first began to form I bought my purse like Mima remember one day it was raining she came in my room she’s
13:26
like take off your shirt I’m like oh my God she can see them you know because at that age you’re embarrassing you don’t have anything you know you don’t want to
13:32
wear a bra you don’t want a boy boys looking at you and she said well it’s okay she says you know you’re you’re becoming a woman you’re blossoming and
13:39
you’re just beautiful but that comes with responsibility of knowing your body and how it could change over time and if
13:45
you understand your body body your breasts right now they’re just they’re small but they’re going to grow and as your body changes you’ll get maybe
13:51
things might grow in there that should be there so if you know what the things that don’t belong there feel like and look like and know your body you’ll know
13:58
what to do if something bad happens so she didn’t scare me she just taught me the importance of knowing my body you
14:04
know in a way that could impact my life in a powerful way and so fast forward from 13 years old 18 years later I’m
14:12
taking a shower by the way I’ve been doing my breast exams for 18 years every single month because I should be stuck
14:17
with it you you really have Mom’s advice to Heart well she said don’t listen to their parents African Mom okay she come
14:23
with the slippers like if you don’t know what she says she comes with that slipper like it’s not like a American Mom hey honey do that she’s like listen
14:29
he don’t eat so they’re very much of a strong disciplinarian you know culture so um but it was for my own good so I did
14:36
my breast exams but I didn’t without even needing a shower hanger or a reminder you know it’s like come to me
14:42
was like brushing my teeth taking a shower doing my normal hygienic things and I was 31 years old
14:47
when when did my world changed taking a shower I was singing Diana Ross ain’t up on Mountain High Enough won’t forget
14:53
that moment I had that whole soundtrack CD soundtrack dating myself here and I
14:58
remember just washing and touching and I just felt something and I was like what is that and it was like oh my God what
15:05
is that and she told me I said when I was 13 she said maybe I said Mommy how will I know if something happens that’s bad and she said if you do your breast
15:12
exam and listen to your body whenever something changes you’ll know and I knew
15:17
immediately the alarm wasn’t there the month before um she also empowered me to have a doctor that I trusted so my OB GYN said
15:24
you’re Way Beyond beneath the screening age but what do you want us to do and I say this because many young women tell
15:30
these stories about what happened to them and doctors will say well you’re too young to have breast cancer you
15:35
don’t even have a mammogram come back when you’re older now OBGYN helped me to push for screening which I had to pay
15:41
for out of pocket because I was under the age um but I once I wanted it she gave helping get it
15:47
um but when I got the results back they were clean and the radiologist said we told you you
15:52
were fine I said well that doesn’t make sense to me this technology is flawed I said you can’t see what’s in my body but
15:58
I can feel it so that means your technology is wrong and she literally like was like no that’s not true this is
16:03
the best we have I said whatever would find this tumor whatever this isn’t me this lump hasn’t been created yet and
16:09
she laughed and said that’s crazy um and I said well no I’m not crazy I know my body and so I continue to push
16:15
for a biopsy Dan I push for a biopsy for over six more months and finally after pushing and pushing and pushing I got a
16:22
biopsy it turned out I had triple negative breast cancer I’m the kind that’s still yet on targeted in black
16:28
women in the early stage setting and for which is the most aggressive kind found in more often a woman who are younger
16:34
and black and Jewish Ashkenazi Jewish um but what I learned was some really
16:40
powerful things during that time if my mother hadn’t taught me the importance of breast exams I never would
16:45
have been doing them at 13 to 31 31 years old I wouldn’t have found the lump
16:50
if I didn’t have a provider I trusted to help me advocate for mammography I wouldn’t have gotten it but the
16:55
technology was wrong um if I hadn’t known my body enough to push for a biopsy and against my the
17:03
insurgents you know recommendations I wouldn’t have done that and I would have been dead years ago and so it taught me
17:09
some really important things about knowing your body being your best Advocate having a team
17:16
that will fight for you there’s no amount of money that is worth your life and there’s no technology is
17:22
flawed and the systems are flawed but I was 32 years old and I didn’t understand how all this worked right I was just a
17:28
girl just a girl with a baby and the doctors were like I’m so sorry you you have cancer but I’m like well what is
17:35
that what do you mean you’re sorry and what do you mean that this will targeted treatment and what does that mean for my life and she said well the average
17:41
recurrence rate for what you have is about five years and if you recur it may probably be most be more aggressive
17:48
stage and then that you know metastatic and that’s it and I’m like sitting there
17:53
thinking WTF like how can this be happening to me and then I found out later on I said are
18:00
there any treatments targeting this at all this triple negative breast cancer and the answer was no
18:07
and there was no and so I got a death sentence although I’d done all the right things I could die because someone didn’t think
18:14
my life was important enough to fight for within the Health Care System um there was no breast screening my
18:21
doctor had dismissed me the surgeon had dismissed me and there was no research that was focusing on like cancer that
18:27
was killing black and brown woman disproportionately that still is today 17 years later
18:32
and so after thinking like I was I was my world was like spinny
18:39
um and then I kind of had to sit back after a while it took me a while to get to where I was like okay what can I do about this but that’s the place that
18:45
most women are find themselves in that who look like me who were that age you don’t know what’s coming for you it does
18:52
come for you you go to the doctor for months and months you get dismissed denied delayed you get diagnosed
18:57
metastatic we’re sorry you’re gonna die and that’s it I have to ask you so kind of going back
19:05
a little bit I mean what you did even at 32 to say I think you’re wrong it’s very
19:12
hard to challenge any established kind of uh practice it let alone Physicians
19:19
um experts surgeons who who do this craft they know their technology they’ve
19:24
studied medical school and they’re saying I know it’s your body but we have lots of empiric data how do you summon
The Courage to Question
19:31
the courage in it what are some things that you advise other people who are in
19:36
your shoes now because it still happens all this you know I’m so glad you asked the question because when I begin to
19:42
question doctors I was told repeatedly you don’t question doctors they’re never wrong you’re not a doctor you know and
19:49
there was that thing of like I thought what they have these MDS phds whatever the hell I’m just mean but my parents
19:55
taught me a really powerful lesson when I was younger my dad you know back in Liberia you know the country was going
20:01
through all kinds of strides and to get by people would ask for bribes so he had
20:06
a business right if you didn’t give people money you couldn’t get certain things done and he’d come with many a day and say
20:12
he’d be sad go down like Daddy what’s wrong he’s like you know um I got turned down by this for this
20:17
deal because I couldn’t I didn’t give the money I didn’t do this thing I didn’t give people I didn’t Buck I
20:23
didn’t Buck for the system my mom also had people that were patients in her hospital that she worked in who were
20:29
abandoned by their families or by people who didn’t have by they didn’t have health care the system was filling them
20:35
but she would use her compassion to help and give them money and to help support these patients so I learned early on the
20:42
importance of integrity and my Integrity my most foremost Integrity is in my life
20:47
and I’m meant to be here for a reason and do something about about something and I knew in my instinct if something
20:54
is wrong in my gut to know that it’s wrong it’s not it’s not fair it’s not right it’s not just
21:00
um but having a doctor tell me that you know I’m like I can feel this long
21:05
probably but you’re a technology can’t see it and you’re telling me that I’m crazy that makes no sense
21:12
um telling me that I’m too young to get a mammogram because for what because some U.S preventative freaking task force says
21:18
that I don’t cheat I don’t give up an F like you know I don’t you can’t make a rule for me or a policy for me without
21:25
me in the room that could kill me right so you’re telling me this policy was made that exclusive population of women
21:30
that look like me that are getting diagnosed were aggressive breast cancer stages because it’s a policy like
21:36
policies are meant to be changed right and so I think the problem is that because we all people have an MD after
21:42
the name or there have X amount of years of experience they think well this is empirical data this is what I learned
21:48
this is how it is that’s not how the world Works um to be
21:53
um an innovator in this world is to be open to be a physician you have to be open to change I ask myself every single
22:00
morning when I get up how can I be different in my thinking today what did I do that I have to unlearn and be and
22:05
open my mind to absorbing that could be I’ve helped to my patients and my constituents and could change these
22:11
systems and I look back at the country I came from also and even this country
22:17
um with you know racism and how it’s impacted health care and there’s so much similarity between Liberia and the US
22:22
things that were put in place that were still in effect racism breaking down these Health Care Systems that weren’t
22:29
working for us so I could either be a part of that problem and see if I can say well I can challenge policy makers I
22:35
can’t challenge the Health Care system so or I can’t challenge a doctor or I could say well you you put on your pants
22:42
same way I put on my pants like one leg at a time and you’re once a young woman or a young man in medical school
22:47
learning your way help me learn a new way of doing things with you be open to the fact that the way you may have
22:53
learned 10 years ago may be different my genetic disposition my DNA is not the one you saw with the patient before me
23:00
had one before that so if you’re not open to change that’s how you become a relic right and people die and so I I
23:06
can’t accept that and I begin to kind of just speak up and Challenge and the more I get telling my story people were
23:12
saying like oh my God my cousin has breast cancer she was 28. my sister died last year she was 1-4 my niece is a lump
23:20
in her breast she’s 18. and these women and girls many of them did have breast cancer then but if I hadn’t heard my
23:27
story they would have known to ask unbeknownst to me I was beginning a movement that helped to drive change in
23:33
the breast cancer world that we know today but I have to keep asking the tough questions and being delivered intentional in saying
23:40
um what about this what about that what if you were wrong and you are to feel
23:45
forward to win for the patient right and that patient wins right so I know you want to ask me a question
23:51
well you know you you’re kind of lean to a you know where you are now and you
23:56
know the midst of you know the battling for your life you kind of made this pact that I’m gonna make a difference if I
Working with Breast Cancer Patients
24:03
get through this I’m going to make a change which ultimately became Tiger Lily
24:08
um tell me about how you’re working with women right now who get first diagnosed it’s it’s no doubt there’s there’s got
24:17
to be that feeling of of why me this notion of you know when bad things happen to good people why do they happen
24:23
and how do you work with them how do you what type of deliberate practices do you
24:28
help them so they don’t get you know sort of weighed down by grief and and
24:33
frustration and and start to move forward and do something that can at least help increase their chances of
24:39
being successful um how do you help them given that you do so much work and advocacy with women
24:44
who are just like you you know I always believe that challenge could be a catalyst you know and um I
24:50
think that you mentioned earlier in the in this conversation how many things I’ve been through you know the wars I’ve been held
24:57
at gunpoint I’ve been hit by lightning I’ve I’ve seen people on the streets dead as at eight at 10 at 15 like I’ve
25:03
been through so many things that were traumatic um I’ve learned that you can either allow
25:10
your challenges to destroy you or you overcome your challenges by moving into who you believe you’re meant to be and
25:17
so with Tiger Lily I wasn’t even through it before I began the organization I was literally in bed
25:22
I had my first chemotherapy treatment and I saw the level of anxiety with which they even talked about cancer and
25:29
the way things were so like you come to treatment and you sit here and look at this little bag and you get these things
25:34
and you go home and you don’t complain and we’re busy and people are dying and you know and people are just it was deaf
25:42
and fear and a sense of just it was like a being in a war zone they thought this is not how
25:48
you love somebody through cancer and through any kind of trauma you have to help them to breathe I could not breathe
25:54
and so I thought I could help a patient who came to me with you know the words
26:00
you have breast cancer what would I do to her do with her so my doctor that I eventually picked to help me Dr Virginia
26:06
quiantello and I saw her at my birthday party she came to my birthday party my 17 year cancer free um was a month ago
26:14
um she literally like she came in the room when she first saw me and I was sitting with my under in the chair with
26:19
my niece under my chin like shaking and she just said she said give me your hands and she said just give me your
26:26
hands and I was just like this and she said free Just Breathe I got you
26:32
and I’m gonna be with you through this entire Journey just breathe and and she didn’t know how
26:38
much she changed my life in that moment of her connecting with me and putting the safe space around us this blanket
26:44
and so I thought what would be able to help women through this process someone who can hear them who can see them who
26:50
can feel them who can hold them in a space where they’re physically or just even virtually and so I began going to
26:57
to churches to talk about what I was what I’ve been through and and ask of anybody in the audience who is going
27:03
through this I went to um schools on my lunch breaks to George Mason and others with my daughter who
27:09
was four than five you know after school on my lunch break and I began sharing these stories and
27:14
they’re all these women who felt like because I was like people are like what are you doing why are you beginning a foundation when you’re sick and I
27:20
thought people out here like I didn’t know I existed this could happen to me that people out here who don’t know that who
27:26
I don’t know that need me if I don’t show up for them they won’t come so if I build it they’re going to come and they
27:31
came and it was it happened so fast that I was still working a full-time job
27:36
my daughter was getting she was three then four then five and people are coming and calling and then the media called and my goal was to really like my
27:44
mother gave me a beautiful gift Dan she taught me the importance of knowing my body trusting in my gut like my gut gut in my
27:51
heart and my head and um and that trust that she and I built in my in terms of like knowing my body
27:58
many girls and their moms didn’t discuss breast health or family health history in the Black Culture we write a lot of
28:04
things about illnesses you know for reasons that are historical we don’t discuss health history and so if I could
28:10
educate a Girl by her body encourage her mother and her to talk about their breast health encourage them to ask
28:15
about family health history and to be empowered against when it came to their health that was important to me but also
28:21
the system was actually feeling this the mammography age was still high women were getting screened and having their
28:27
dense breast issue missed tumors so if you couldn’t if the system wasn’t working for you and
28:35
you don’t advocate for yourself you you could die and you most likely would die and so my goal is to empower and what I
28:40
call Force multiply find more of me and build more of me and build an army of angels and one of our first programs
28:46
became our Angel advocacy program and it’s called Advocate now to grow in
28:51
power and lead I believe that when you have um the gift of life you are empowered to
28:57
be responsible for others and paying that forward but also as an advocate or
29:02
as a human being we often don’t know the power we the power that exists within us I had no idea I could begin a non-profit
29:09
organization while in treatment um with no money and no board and no no
29:14
resources and now be a niche a Grassroots focus and driven National and
29:20
then Global footprint of an organization that I build literally for the past 17 years and many of those years were not
29:27
funded because people didn’t think that black women like patients deserve the habit and run organizations we weren’t like that you know the bigger ones but
29:34
we were making the on the grass on the ground Grassroots impact and so I had to figure out who are my foot soldiers that
29:40
would work with me as a as me join my Army and after I build an army a badass woman
29:46
that could Challenge and ask and and be empowered and know what to ask about and say no that’s unacceptable and know
29:53
you’re a doctor but I’m the doctor of my life I am my the CEO of my health and that army of badass group from five to
30:01
ten to hundreds and they began to we put them in positions of power like what they were getting involved with policy
30:07
we went to the hill where I put them in the media they could share their opinions but they could challenge you
30:12
know the fact that why aren’t there more black and brown women getting into clinical trials well you’re not asking
30:17
us about them so we don’t know what to ask for and by the way there are things that were done that were horribly wrong which is why we don’t trust right
30:23
they’re also barriers to trials and into trial adherence so I began to kind of
30:29
just lay in bed while in treatment and map out like you know I I kind of like will lay in bed and close my eyes and say Anna in Nirvana what would this look
30:36
like for me in the Nirvana of of what would I create right and begin to just kind of systematically like Target
30:42
people and they’re like you don’t have any money you you have no Foundation be basically barely and you’re still
30:48
working a full-time job and they said um the currency I operate is one of love and one of Hope and that energy is is
30:56
Limitless right and we grew from nothing to now where we are today so
31:06
there’s a few questions that are that are queuing up but before I let other people have their say I have another
31:12
question for you so building on this point about building out an advocacy Network you know what I’ve always found
Building an Advocacy Network
31:18
is change change management happens when you do have that Force multiplier effect
31:23
one big personality a big person is able to reach many people who are like-minded how many people are part of of that that
31:31
Network now and maybe more importantly how have you been able to kind of systematically grow and bring more
31:38
people on and get farther reaches around the country and and Beyond actually the country but I’d love to know more about
31:45
some of those things because it’s not easy to build an advocacy Network it is not easy yet you know my brothers I have
31:51
four brothers one sent me a text yesterday and said one of my friends um wants to begin a cancer organization
31:58
and wants to talk to you I said tell him no do not do it then first of all groups
32:03
that need help with building with their Charities but I mean it it literally almost it
32:10
it’s not easy because they’re people that have created these systems in healthcare that want them to work
32:15
because they’ve been in power they run them they make money off these things and they don’t want to be challenged because they want to be they want to
32:22
control things right so when a person like me comes along that says well I’m like a David Goliath you’re wrong and
32:28
let’s change that they will fight against you people try to shut me down in the past um people try to get to make sure I
32:34
didn’t get funded so for the first 14 years I wasn’t getting like money from biotech and companies because people are
32:40
saying don’t tell women to get breasts to do their own breast exams and girls but if you can’t get a screening until
32:45
you’re 45 or 55 what the hell do I tell patients just to wait till they get metastatic so there are groups that were
32:52
founded in these um these uh policies that were not
32:58
wanting to see what I was saying come to fruition so for me it was like I had to build an organic
33:03
Army you know I had to go against the bigger foundations I wasn’t going against them I did not like them I like what they they gave me they gave a good
33:10
foundation for what was there they made the worst breast cancer palatable we could talk about these things
33:16
they weren’t willing to change um as the world changed so I began to train women about you know okay you’re
33:22
this age do your breast examinations ask your doctor questions in a question your doctor higher fi or doctor why is this
33:29
policy in place why can’t we get the right kind of screening technology okay go find a company that does screening
33:34
ask some questions can I go to the research lab well no are you in treatment no I’m not but I was what why
33:40
don’t we have better treatments for triple negative breast cancer so like I kept going places where I shouldn’t have been or people like me
33:46
didn’t go and I would go to San Antonio breast or go to ask one you would be like are you a doctor no okay so well
33:52
doctors Owen still so I’m like no I deserve I should be in these rooms I should be in these halls and so I began
33:58
to train black woman and brown woman and young women and take them these places where we weren’t invited and that’s how
34:05
I kind of trans like flipped the script you know and now there’s more women who are advocating but it took me 14 years
34:11
to build this thing I almost gave up countless times because I feel like I was an elephant pushing a
34:17
boulder up a hill on roller skates and and there was like a weight coming down on me and there was like bolt of
34:23
lightning and thunder and Spears and but I knew that I’m never going to leave this planet
34:28
until I make the Mark I meant to make and even then because people’s lives depend on me
34:35
um committing to that love I committed to you when I was in treatment that you know and the healing that they deserve
34:40
and the justice and health care and the right to have a joyful life right and so
34:46
I began to train well maybe we were doing like fun things too we did like you know pajama Glam parties we had like
34:53
sleepovers we had like you know spa days it wasn’t all like serious but we also
34:58
went to the hill and did some badass too right so it’s all about like talking about health with women and
35:03
girls where it’s fun but then doing the serious things like going and advocating and saying unacceptable it has to change
35:09
and you have to do it now and a lot of a lot of change I look back now I go
35:14
like what I did that like really um but and it was not without fear I
35:20
mean because you can’t imagine being a young woman challenging these systems that can destroy your reputation or your
35:25
name or your foundation that before you even started but you know I know the place I come from is one of integrity
35:31
and authenticity and you can’t destroy that right and still here today we’ve
35:37
got some we’ve got some really interesting questions from the group oh boy the person no they’re they’re all
35:42
all are they good all all in bounds um one is just a definitional question triple negative breast cancer
35:50
um why is that so particularly um difficult or challenging any sort of
35:56
maybe a little bit of clinical background uh would be helpful on that one I’ll give you a layman’s term um so
36:02
most treatments are most cancers are caused by estrogen so they sell they can
36:08
they make drugs that can plug that should the whole like plug the hole in the cell or plug that whatever let’s say it’s a door and the treatment can block
36:14
the door it’s a blocker and so unlike unlike those those estrogen-based estrogen
36:20
um caused cancers triple negative breast cancer has no receptors that that can that are you
36:26
know open to estrogen you know forming from them so this is not caused by estrogen so you can’t
36:32
block the estrogen so the research has been focusing more on um estrogen based therapies and
36:38
Therapeutics not those are are not caused by estrogen that makes sense
36:45
um and so because there was not enough research focusing on that kind of breast cancer it has less targeted treatments
36:51
I will also say that that kind of cancer is often found most often in black women and brown women so it people think well
36:58
it’s aggressive yeah but why is it aggressive it’s because it’s really aggressive or is it because it’s not targeted by treatments because women who
37:05
are white were most often recruited into these studies so the cancers have more options right and so again the words
37:12
that are used around triple negative breast cancer aggressive angry hostile like the words or the same words are
37:18
used about black women that they are angry and hostile and so like even the way we talk about the kind of cancers we
37:24
have we have to change those kind of things but that kind of cancer is not estrogen-based and so there’s no way to
37:30
block it because they don’t know what makes a star in the first place they are finding that that those women that are African of
37:37
that descent tend to have that more as well and so one of my key focuses and is I’m really thankful that they’re more
37:44
um biotech companies focusing on tnbc um they passed you know like five years because it wasn’t a Target before wasn’t
37:51
the main focus um but even yet there’s still only treatment in the metastatic setting not in the early setting so I never had
37:57
treatment and so when you think about unicorns technically you know people like me don’t live this
38:03
long but I’m still here for a reason and I’ll be here for a long time but my goal is to ensure that we get better treatments she’ll get women like myself
38:10
better options so they have the options and they have a longer life there’s a lot of research there’s a lot
38:16
of new treatments that are being developed we’re seeing kind of a you know a growth and explosion particularly
38:22
in in mRNA um what’s disconcerting is what the question that somebody else had brought
38:28
up a topic we’ve talked about in uh past conversations uh the rate of breast
The Growing Rate of Breast Cancer
38:34
cancer seems to be steadily increasing um I know you’re not an epidemiologist
38:39
per se but what’s your hunch is this more an artifact a better diagnosis or
38:46
is there something else going on you know outside exogenously to see the
38:51
rates are increasing across all groups but uh we’re seeing pretty high rates particularly in diverse communities what
38:57
do you what do you think is happening or have you what type of things have you heard uh in the conversations you’ve had
39:03
with clinicians and experts yeah I do think that better Diagnostics have been to the higher diagnosis rates that’s one
39:10
thing I believe that there’s more screening options I also think that
39:16
you know their stress which impacts our body in our this our Enviro our world is
39:23
so highly stressed it’s so filled with like toxins as well right so there’s the stress of the of the living the world we
39:29
live in right now there’s the environmental causation like you could buy healthy food at the store that’s
39:34
covered in pesticides so you’re eating you know food that has been pumped with hormones and and pesticides and other
39:41
things that I meant to preserve good food but it’s going to harm you in the end right um we lay with our kids on rugs and
39:48
houses that are covered in in things to make the rugs water resistant but that
39:54
are you know harmful to our bodies they’re full of toxins as well our skin and care products our hair care products all
40:01
those things carry you know toxins um you know um they’re communities of color
40:07
because of redlining segregation that are where they have more waste products in those communities right
40:14
um there are some studies that were done recently that showed that some communities that of color had more
40:20
cancers and they did the sole environmental research study well they found out when people hold people who were poor and and um have lower wages
40:28
and they’re depressed they may drink more and then smoke more and you have these house fires and they were they
40:34
called the firemen to put the fire out but the suds that were in those hoses were seated into the water they’re
40:40
running water and they were carcinogenic as well so there’s all these things that are because of like racism that impacts
40:47
people’s where they live their zip codes um and then if you’re in community that doesn’t have access to getting screened
40:53
because it’s the centers of excellence are farther away like the NCI centers are in more they’re farther away and you
41:00
don’t have transportation you may say well I can’t deal with that right now I’ll feed my kids first keep
41:06
my job and delay screening hence a higher death rate for black women black and brown women
41:12
um we’re not offering clinical trials as much or why am I protesting so there are all these things that are systemic racism impactful impact environmental
41:21
um there’s fear there’s you know lack of you know there’s barriers to access all
41:26
these things that are happening um but the thing that bothers me bothering me the most is that people of color black people I looked at this
41:32
research product um research survey show that we are amongst the largest consumers of like
41:39
Beauty Brands like skin hair makeup and and like you know certain products that
41:44
are high dollar so I always ask people the question if you how do you find people to buy make them buy hair care products skincare
41:51
products and cars and luxury products but can’t find them to get into a trial right
41:57
so if you’re saying you can’t find black people to recruit to get them better outcomes you can find them to get that
42:02
car the makeup makeup or the waist trainer so like I think it’s you know I think that we have to call people out for what it is even the
42:09
algorithms that we use on social media hi friends who were you know I would say
42:16
like in a more affluent white and black and different levels and I’ll say let me see your Instagram and I’ll look at what
42:22
they’re getting and what their feed is so whatever they’re being fed with is what they consume and that’s what they think is their world right but if you’re
42:28
getting fed with content on you know health and juicing and fitness that’s
42:34
what you’re going to want to consume more of so my goal is to help people change what they accept that’s being fed to them through the media through the
42:41
news through what they focus on their lives and what you focus on grows and for me health is the most important gift
42:48
we have without our health we are nothing I’ve got one more question for
42:53
you from the group um another one that’s probably very familiar I know if you’ve posted on it so not surprising that this comes up
The Change of the Screening Ages
43:01
um the in the recent weeks you you reference the U.S preventative service task force oh my God they they’ve uh
43:09
reduced or changed the uh the screen rate or the screening age
43:15
um for breast cancer was it 50 now it’s a 40 and it took a long time for that to
43:21
happen it’s looked at by many people as a as a big success um there’s questions being asked but
43:28
I’ll ask you your reactions to that um is it enough what else needs to be
43:33
done by this task force or the other powers that be with respect to screening
43:38
as you’re asking me the question my blood pressure is getting higher just because it makes me I’m trying to control my mouth gets you sick on air
43:45
that’s uh I just no because I I mean like it infuriates me that these people create these systems
43:52
um so even I think it was like 12 years ago when Debbie Wasserman Schultz and Ice she’s a dear friend we went we
43:57
targeted we went to the USPS and said you cannot put in place regulations that
44:03
tell women to get screened only at you know mid 40s so there’s like the ACs recommendations and guidelines there’s a
44:09
U.S preventative task force and then there’s the nccn guidelines so people are looking at the guidelines to
44:15
who are pay yours and Physicians to say to their patients yes or no to get screening so one of them says 45 one
44:22
says 55 once something different it’s confusing to patients first of all but we said to them whatever whatever
44:28
you all say that age is too high it has to come down their women getting diagnosed like myself at 32 years old at
44:35
28 years old how do we give those women access to live safely screening and we we challenge the task force and we went
44:41
on the hill and we push against what they were recommending and we got them to the the government
44:47
state them pushing the recommendations forward but they still kept putting them
44:52
out over time so um fast forward you know to two weeks ago there’s this oh my God it’s a hard
44:59
moment of making the age 30 years old I was so effing pissed because
45:05
do you know how many people have died in the past in the past 12 years 15 years because of their algorithms or their
45:11
policies or procedures or their idea that they’re right um I actually spoke at an nccn Summit
45:17
last year and the lady who’s the head of the task force was there she sat next to me and I
45:22
ripped her a new one I was polite to her but I said how dare you
45:28
um defend these recommendations that are killing people who look like me but you’re sitting there
45:33
how do they defend not lowering it to 35 to 30. they don’t they talk in circles
45:40
they talk in circles and they talk in circles and so I made it to a point to make them uncomfortable
45:45
so you okay that means talking to their constituents and their funders and and policy makers and getting patients to
45:52
write letters and you know you just make them really hot in the pot people turn that water up so they can’t stay in the
45:58
pot any longer and they came out with the you know recommendations for 30 years but then they’re saying for Women
46:05
First every two years and for me my population of young women and black women that’s not enough so it can’t be
46:11
every two years and 30 isn’t isn’t it it it’s we have to have women to be able to
46:16
have screening when they needed whatever age they’re at I understand that the more radiation
46:21
that you have puts you at higher risk for cancer I’ve never heard a patient that’s metastatic who’s dying to say to me
46:29
I’m happy I didn’t have screening earlier so you know it’s not a scary woman it’s not disempowering them as a
46:35
matter of fact it could save their lives and so my goal is to be able to ensure that woman at any age that needs to get
46:40
I mean you don’t have gross getting cancer at 13 or 18 but it does happen so if you present with a symptom give me
46:47
the chance to say what I want and what I deserve right um and that’s my goal with this whole thing so I wrote a very um stiff
46:55
um rebuttal I think I said the title was a little too late and we’re still dying and I put it on LinkedIn and I had
47:01
people email me and say uh and I said yeah this is I’ve been you know this I don’t whatever I say I stand by it
47:08
because um for the Grace by the grace grace of God I’m still here but many women don’t have the privilege I have of life of Living
47:14
being alive with all these barriers around screening and not having targeted treatment so I can’t just stand by and
47:21
be like well you know I’m going to be patient because in 10 years we’ve lost many sisters and moms and daughters to
47:28
cancer because of these task force recommendations and other barriers like you know clinical trial barriers and
47:34
such and so my goal is to work to change that and to engage my Army of Angels in making these changes happen to use my
47:40
voice and my time and my energy and um to make sure that we disrupt these
47:47
systems and transform how they’re thinking about us treating us and making sure that we’re at the Forefront of how
47:53
these things work and how they’re driven and how they change so I’ll throw out a provocation a provocative thought what
What if…
48:00
if mammography could happen not in a mammography center or an outpatient care
48:06
facility but it could happen right in you’re describing in your home in your home in your shower at a CVS so the
48:14
question is is you know when or how might that technology evolve or how do
48:19
we incentivize innovators to create Photography in a box in a shower in your
48:26
hand and I I think that that may be the the discontinuous kind of disruption the
48:33
thing that changes is from instead of lowering it from 40 to 35 to 30 how do
48:38
we put it in the hand of every person to increase the probability that they’ll be faster detection with technology around
48:45
here now but you know like look at this phone we didn’t have this phone years ago we didn’t we were using pagers and
48:53
fax machines and you know we didn’t we couldn’t just call somebody in Germany or Whatsapp or Tick Tock or Instagram
48:59
and Linkedin like this has been only within the span of like how many years this phone always changed our lives so
49:05
like so you’re how do we reimagine what’s possible well how do we dream what’s impossible and make that happen
49:10
absolutely I I have we’re almost out of time but I have just a couple of quick
49:16
things I wanted to to ask and hear your thoughts on one is this idea about
49:21
clinical trials and you alluded to this and I want to make sure we didn’t skip over trials trials have been
Clinical Trial Diversity
49:29
um you know inherently and traditionally designed in very rigid ways
49:34
representative of smaller populations and getting diversity in clinical trials has been one of the bigger initiatives
49:40
it’s been very challenging um how do large companies Pharma device
49:46
companies and other other institutions change the complexion of their trials
49:51
literally and metaphorically I love that question one thing we’re doing with biotech companies is getting
49:57
involved with them before the trial starts it’s like working with them to look at you know what communities are
50:03
you going to find people in how do you build trust in those build trust by going in before you start the trial to
50:09
like understand the demographic the barriers the challenges they’ve faced and build their relationships
50:15
um how do you design the trial what do you call a trial um where do you where do you where do you do the Outreach for the trial
50:21
where’s the trial being done um what does the site look like what does the content look like how do the
50:26
investigators talk with the team you know how do you help people overcome barriers to getting into a trial and
50:31
adhering to a trial so we’ve been creating all these really awesome Partnerships engaging biotech
50:37
and helping to look at the site selection review ICF forms and do
50:43
Investigator training um advising them on the entire clinical trial build out we launched a platform
50:48
last month called raise to help patients adhere to clinical trials by having their barriers overcome to
50:54
transportation to financial assistance to lodging so people are you know saying that all these barriers just freaking
51:00
fix it so we just fixed it we’re going to keep growing the platform as well but we’re building out the angel Advocate
51:07
Network in communities that are underserved partnering with biotech to build out the entire clinical trial
51:12
phase the name that the conversation about around the community and what’s what do they want to hear and what makes
51:18
them feel comfortable and then we are challenging them we launched an inclusion pledge in 2019 saying that
51:25
anybody was touching a black or brown woman in the clinical trial or inner Healthcare setting has to make these
51:30
commitments to diversity and so just saying you’re going to try and find like patience is not enough for me don’t try
51:35
to find what is the diversity goal you know what are you going to do with that so we help them with the diversity
51:40
planning as well we also challenge the FDA instead that you know your guidelines are like you can’t
51:46
just issue a recommendation what is that going to look like to to move the needle forward issuing a guidance is one thing
51:52
but I don’t want a guidance if people don’t meet the guidance what how are they accountable yeah so I’m very much
51:57
of a smart goal person like showing what you’re going to do when you’re going to do it how are you going to measure it how are you going to enforce it and and
52:04
so forth and so you know the way I am on this call I’m actually being quite nice and polite on this podcast but I
52:10
challenge people I’m like this is some effing like and I’m like I say this anywhere I am I don’t care it’s CDC FDA
52:15
you know NCI I say what I say and you have to change this or I’m going to keep the in your face and I get my angel
52:22
Advocates involved and I challenge people and then they say you know what and I honestly what’s making you not
52:27
change but we don’t do it that way that’s yes you can change you can do it this way try it and see what happens and
52:34
they try and go oh my God what a novel idea it’s not novel it’s common freaking sense so if you let the patient drive
52:40
and and work with us and become a partner you can’t change and I love that we have great partners that we’ve been
52:47
working with the past few years to just drive change and build trust in their patients that we we’ve we’ve educated
52:53
now who are totally like they their grandparents live our parents lived in near Hopkins when you would kidnap black
52:59
kids they wouldn’t go home and they’ve learned that there’s safety measures in place there’s protection there’s all
53:05
these things to protect and support black and brown patients um not just to overcome trust Spirit trust prep barrier but to be able to
53:12
engage with a trial and stay with the trial and adhere to it and have better outcomes and they’re now our biggest
53:17
ambassadors talking about the importance of political trials and then we have Pharma that’s listening right they think
53:24
that Pharma thinks they’re a big farmer they’re big that you don’t know what we need you do what you do well you make
53:29
medicines we know what we need in the community we’re trusted let us let us help you help us right and so it’s
53:37
becoming a better relationship versus a transaction and and also I challenge people to become part based if it was
53:42
your child in that chair getting the diagnosis what would you want for your child white
53:48
black or other I I I wanted to to ask you just to drill down just well I guess uh my penultimate question for you is
Real Customer Insights for Companies
53:55
about large companies getting the voice of of real patients and customers you
54:01
know is always almost like a the experience of going to the zoo of like oh look an endangered breast cancer
54:07
patient over there oh a pancreatic patient let’s think what they let’s hear what they have to say but they it is so
54:13
staged in sort of theatric that it lost the meaning and I see that that slowly
54:18
changing how do you get real authentic voice of patients and customers so companies will hear it they’ll think
54:25
about it they’ll embrace it early on because it’s hard um we often we being large companies
54:32
sometimes approach things of you know with a nowhere’s mindset we know what you need we don’t have to tell us we we
54:39
know um but often it’s misguided and yeah or more they’re getting that but there’s
54:44
still a need but we tell them that you don’t know you know what you’re talking about no one’s going to watch an ad on
54:50
TV that says take this drug and you’re going to have a bloody liver and bloody stool and your butt’s going to fall out and you’re going to Keel over and die
54:56
and have migraines and and it’s like you know who’s going to watch that you tell a patient like you know you know do you
55:01
take aspirin or a headache yes or you do you have allergies yeah but to be to feel better you took that drug or that
55:07
was one for the trial right oh yeah wow like you know so like we I’ve helped we’ve helped biotech to understand that
55:13
you do a great job at creating Therapeutics we do a good job at at
55:19
knowing people and people trust us because we were once in those shoes let us help you do that
55:25
and so we we would have on listening sessions where we bring patients and biotech together and we say Mr biotech
55:32
Mrs biotech he said no audience and listen and let the patient tell you what they need and we’ve had these sessions
55:37
across the country to help to change how people’s youth patients and not just we’re not just patients we’re experts
55:43
we’re people that have jobs that became a patient right so like when you view a patient as an expert as
55:50
an expert as a doctor or somebody working in an office with a PhD or whatever it is you value their input you
55:56
pay them for their time we also train patients on how to be able to engage with Scientists researchers
56:02
policy makers people in the clinical trial space so we’re not just saying you know here’s a patient go tell your story
56:07
and make people cry we’re saying that your lived experience is so powerful that if they knew what you went through
56:13
they would change how they think so we help them to articulate what to say how to say it and we tell our partners don’t
56:20
tell them don’t coach my patient don’t tell me that you can’t say this that the other if you want to know my truth let
56:26
me speak my truth and um we’ve been really blessed to have Partners who go you know what as an ally should know
56:32
when to shut the hell up and listen and and hear your truth and then they change and so we’ve seen a huge shift
56:40
happened it was a horrible time but I think people saw the fact that you know as black women and patients that
56:48
puts on our neck metaphorically all the time right we’re told to just show up and smile and don’t be aggressive don’t
56:54
ask for too much don’t you know don’t be angry don’t you know just don’t don’t be too intimidating and too scary just kind
57:01
of be a patient and go home and we that’s not happening any longer because you know we have to change those
57:08
um the user we’re going to keep seeing people die who are black and brown whether it’s a the hands of police or in
57:14
the Health Care system and so we train patients to be strong Advocates to not back down speak up for what they want
57:19
and we have again some amazing Partners who are working with in biotech in the
57:24
policy space as well and clinical trials with clinical trials to really change um the trial system and how it works and
57:31
it’s really become a beautiful relationship well well said I we’ve covered a lot of
57:37
ground and it’s amazing I know and it’s been an hour it feels like it’s been 10 minutes I I’m gonna ask you one last
57:44
thing if you have three tips or suggestions somebody who who wants to
57:49
create this type of change um thinking about it is from a Survivor to CEO to change agent
57:57
um what are three tips that you might give somebody that wants to make a difference and they just to see a lot of
3 Recommendations from Maimah
58:03
a lot of Headway and a lot of obstacles in front of them what three things would you recommend for them to do to make
58:09
real meaningful change like you’ve done I would say happening having a Clear Vision
58:15
and so like my cousin and I were talking yesterday about you know like where I was and where I am today and she said you know your vision’s changed and I
58:22
said it’s changed but it was always I knew where I was going but I didn’t know how I would get there so that the going division was like I want to create a
58:28
national global Network I’ve empowered badass women and
58:34
men that are changing these systems so I have a vision um but I had to be able to change how I got there right so I thought first okay
58:41
I want to be like this group or that group that I thought but they’re not doing the right things I don’t want to be like them I want to be like me so
58:47
having a vision but being open to like the hard part is knowing how you’re going to be your unique self in the
58:52
space how are you going to do it with your own voice and how are you going to do it differently and why is what you’re
58:58
doing different being able to assess what you’re doing is it copying and pasting they say or is it like a unique
59:03
offering that’s not existing in the world right so having a vision having a unique
59:08
um way of doing what you do in the world and then being relentless you know this is being relentless and being
59:14
Unapologetic in what you what you deserve what you want and what you demand and um I never say ask well I
59:21
don’t ask I think they just I say I say I want that I’m taking that I deserve that my patients deserve to live so I
59:26
have to ask for that for them so it just you have to be because it’s not easy to be able to be a change agent people
59:31
don’t want to see their systems that get created and make money from and and that are comfortable for them be a change and
59:37
be they don’t want to be have that on their face or say that they’re wrong and it’s not why they’re being wrong about them saying that I can change change is
59:43
beautiful it’s good and so having a vision being willing to be to adapt as
59:49
your as you grow into who you are and and be comfortable being comfortable as you change because I did change a lot
59:56
from the girl I was was very much you know really you know more timid not knowing but I knew the whole time but I
1:00:02
didn’t know how I didn’t know what how I would do it I just kind of was open to like learning building relationships and
1:00:07
then um just being Unstoppable our tour right now is called Unstoppable it’s the Unstoppable Angel tour and it’s so like
1:00:13
whenever I heard no I said Thank you you’re you’re ensuring my success and I just never stopped and when I get tired
1:00:20
I rest and I take care of myself I’m a self-care I’m a total self-care like
1:00:25
um babe but I knew that these people in the world deserve for me to show up in it and so I did and thank God I did and
1:00:32
thank God I’m still standing well we’re glad you’re standing too and and not just standing still that for sure
1:00:38
Relentless Unstoppable a force of energy
1:00:44
um first off myself the deliberate way it’s a real honor to have you here today thank you for having me there Insight
1:00:51
um you know we look forward to having further chats with you and seeing how Tiger Lily continues to have a thousand
1:00:58
flowers blooming so congratulations on everything you’ve done and thank you again so much thanks for having me all
1:01:05
of our listeners here tune in for our next episode we’ll see you guys very soon for now thank you and have a great
1:01:12
rest of your day and week take care everyone